E6a and 7mge/gte supra trigger/na dizzie ??

haltechmk3

E6a and 7mge/gte supra trigger/na dizzie ??

Postby haltechmk3 » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:41 am

Im installing a haltech e6a on a 1989 supra and i was planning on going the na distributor route with a single channel ignition module (hecu1) however my tach signal seems sparatic. Do i have to trim off some trigger teeth(24 total with one magnet) , or do i have to fabricate something totally different to run a hall effect ?Thanks for any direction or help.

THR RX7

Re: E6a and 7mge/gte supra trigger/na dizzie ??

Postby THR RX7 » Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:58 pm

If memory serves, the E6A didnt read magnetic reluctor signals, so you will need either a Haltech RA8 adapter or a pair of MSD-8509, one for each reluctor. And you dont need to cut teeth off, just set it to multitooth, 24 teeth, tooth offset 5 and trigger angle in the 67 range.

If you have any more questions just ask.

Claudio RX-7
http://www.tuningtechnology.com
info@tuningtechnology.com
Dominican Republic
Tel. +1(809)763.0202
Tel. +1(678)810.0763

haltechmk3

Re: E6a and 7mge/gte supra trigger/na dizzie ??

Postby haltechmk3 » Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:44 am

Thanks for the help. May i ask why i would need 2 msd 8509 modules? The schematic in the haltech e6 manual shows some v8 configs , one with a magnetic sensor w/ 1 magnet per two cylinders , with one msd 8509 in line. I assume the two msd 8509 would be because there is one trigger wheel with 24 teeth, then below it theres a home trigger , and then another wierd sloped trigger. Total of three reluctors? Use all three?

Someone please point me to a good book on this.
<i>Edited by: haltechmk3 at: 8/28/07 11:06 am
</i>

THR RX7

Re: E6a and 7mge/gte supra trigger/na dizzie ??

Postby THR RX7 » Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:07 pm

When using your stock distributor from the 7M, there are 3 reluctors, Ne, G1 and G2, now, Ne is the 24 tooth trigger, and G1 is the reluctor for TDC for cylinder 1 and G2 is the reluctor for Cyl4, i think i may have it backwards.

The point is that, Ne will be your MAIN TIRGGER, and G1 (or G2, doesnt really matter) will be your HOME TRIGGER. Now, depending on which G you use your trigger settings will vary.

The reason for using the 2 little MSD 8509 boxes is because the Haltech E6A, if i remember correctly, does not read magnetic reluctor sensors, only Hall Effect, so the little MSD boxes transform the magnetic reluctor signal into a Hall Effect and therefore Haltech friendly signal.

Is that a better explanation?

Frankly, i would get rid of the E6A, and get at least an E8, or an E6X, you will be glad you did and you wont need to buy any additional aparatus to make it work, just connect it directly, configure the internal reluctor settings in the trigger setup and thats it.
Claudio RX-7
http://www.tuningtechnology.com
info@tuningtechnology.com
Dominican Republic
Tel. +1(809)763.0202
Tel. +1(678)810.0763

noe179

Re: E6a and 7mge/gte supra trigger/na dizzie ??

Postby noe179 » Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:44 pm

I used a national Semiconductor chip part number LM1815. You can find the spec sheet on
pdf1.alldatasheet.com/dat...M1815.html
This Variable reluctor amplifier is quite cheap if you want to have a try building one. Actually you would need 2 IC's, one for home and one for the trigger. If you wish, I can forward you a schematic of the circiut which you can build on a prototyping board. It worked fine for two of my projects.

noe179

THR RX7

Re: E6a and 7mge/gte supra trigger/na dizzie ??

Postby THR RX7 » Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:51 pm

Noel,

Can you post the schematics here? i'd like to have a look at them. Its always good to have alternatives. How well does it work converting reluctor signals to hall effect?

Claudio RX-7
http://www.tuningtechnology.com
info@tuningtechnology.com
Dominican Republic
Tel. +1(809)763.0202
Tel. +1(678)810.0763

haltechmk3

Thanks

Postby haltechmk3 » Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:19 pm

THR RX7 , your the man! Thanks for the excellent explanation. That cleared up alot of questions i had.

Noel, id love to see the schematics too as a more inexpensive alternative is always welcome.

This ole girl "karen" is going to suck up small grandmas in wheel chairs when i get this t70 huffin...Cant wait to drive the supra again. Thanks again people.
-weldy

haltechmk3

tach surge.. haltech Hecu1 diagram vs haltech e6 diagram

Postby haltechmk3 » Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:33 am

Ive wired up everything, per what you guys explained on here. I did notice that between the haltech book , and the wiring schematics for my haltech igniter, the two diagrams dont correspond! Haltech not compatiable with haltech hecu1 ? LOL.

For instance terminal 3 on the hecu1 is marked as n/c , in the haltech manual terminal 3 is a ground going back to the e6 main harness on the 6 way flat weatherpack. Terminal 5 on the hecu1 is marked as unused on the haltech e6 wiring schematics, but on the directions with the hecu1 , it shows 5 as a ignition output for the haltech..WTF? Terminal 6 shows to be ig out in haltech book , but igniter paperwork says 6 is n/c ... good thing im not confused!

Now my problem is that car starts , runs for about 2 seconds and dies as i watch the tach signal jump from 300-rpm to 21400 rpm while cranking, car will start then die as tach signal goes erratic. A simple cycle of the key-off then on , fuel pump cycles and tach jumps to 21400 rpm then to 11,600 , then to zero, without the motor even turning over. I speculate it has something to do with the two wiring schematics that dont agree with each other..Which one do i go by-the haltech e6 diagram or the haltech igniter wire diagram? Im getting spark and even fuel, but the tach signal isnt constant like it was when i wired it in my garage and put a drill on the dizzy to make sure the tach signal was stable with the two msd 8509 boxes.
Thanks for any help.

haltechmk3

Re: tach surge

Postby haltechmk3 » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:09 am

Rechecked the instruction manual, still have not found my trace rpm problem.I do have the two msd 8509 boxes grounded to the same ground, would that be a problem? My trigger worked fine in the house , but on the car with everything hooked up it bounces around.
I get spark and car coughs, i get fuel. Just trying to troubleshoot this thing and im getting nowhere fast!I regrounded all my igniion side wiring using seperate grounds for all TO THE CHASSIS AT DIFFERENT LOCATIONS. Does the igniter ground run back to the haltech ground on the output ignition 6 plug? I grounded it to the chassis.
Another suspect area would be the one switchable wire from the keyswitch powering the haltech , igniter, and coil. Would that be a problem? What wire exactly has to be shielded?

Just slightly frustrated and answers are getting really difficult to come by, and where is all the haltech support?!!!

Feel like im doing something no one has done, surely there are other mk3 supras out there with haltechs on them??????
been on here for the last week and still no replies...

THR RX7

Re: tach surge

Postby THR RX7 » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:37 am

Lets start from the beginning, you are using a 7M distributor, which has 3 reluctors in it, Ne, G1 and G2, and you have a pair of MSD-8509 signal stabilizers, now, the way to set this up is simple, configure both your main and home trigger inputs as hall effect, using the input pull up option set to ON, using G1 as your Home trigger and NE as the main trigger, set trigger edges to Falling, and then you need to find Trigger Angle to 70 degrees and i guess we could start with tooth offset 5, but im not sure if those values are wrong, they are just a starting point.

Do you have it set up this way? if you dont then you need to revise this.

Now, if you do, then its time to set the spark output, you have mentioned you had a single ignition module for a single coil, these modules are set as Constant Charge, with a charge (or dwell) time of about 3mS as base, normally with a Falling edge, is this how you have it setup?

Other than these basic Haltech setups, what else can you say about your setup, spark plug wire you are using, have you done a proper grounding of the engine, and Haltech?

Are you supplying proper power to the ECU, injectors, and coils?
Claudio RX-7
http://www.tuningtechnology.com
info@tuningtechnology.com
Dominican Republic
Tel. +1(809)763.0202
Tel. +1(678)810.0763

Scott1600

.

Postby Scott1600 » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:44 am

firstly - I hate it when people whinge about support on a 15 year old product. your ecu has probably been supported by haltech by 5 owners in 5 applications.
go to your computer shop with a 386 and get them to install winXP on it for free..... yeah right.

You need to get a multimeter and test over your whole car. find your grounding problem and fix it.
Also, use a distributer that is supported by the E6a series ecu. Use a standard trigger type hall pickup.


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