strange pull/no pull condition

[LMS_689]

Can you repeat the problem, this time logging trigger at last home? Do you feel the engine surge when it's acting this way, is there ignition breakup, anything else?

[jasaircraft]

Hi
well yeah surge is like fast oscillations of pulling and not pulling right? like a wild horse you know hehehe only very fast. I'll log all triggers tomorrow. I dont think its an ignition cut since you dont hear a pop, bang or prrrr! which would occur if ignition was cut while air and fuel are flowing.
I also have the suspicion that I might have too much advance and so it tries to spin the engine in the opposite direction?
tomorrow's triggering will tell, well you guys will tell actually since I still cant interpret these signals

[LMS_689]

The map looks ok. I would say you certainly don't have too much advance. The ECU is changing the timing and fuel output it's calling for when it shouldn't. The maps (timing especially) is relatively flat around the rpm and load ranges you're having the trouble in so it shouldn't be doing what it's doing. The ECU looks at load and rpm to calculate the ignition advance and since load is obviously consistent the trigger signal is the next thing to suspect. Another thing we should check in your map that just occurred to me is ignition correction maps.

The one thing that is really odd to me is that it appears the ignition maps call for around 25* BTDC in the load area you're running the engine when it's acting up. The datalog graph looks like the lowest troughs of the up and down cycle of the timing is around 25*. So is the ECU adding timing over what you have programmed? I would like to see the datalog in the regular .csv format in a spreadsheet instead of the graph form.

[jasaircraft]

yes thats exactly what I was thinking, although I couldnt see much of a difference in ignition correction maps for ignition (air temp, coolant temp) I couldnt work on the car today, I*ll log that tomorrow and email the .csv file to you guys, the strange thing is that when pressing on the pedal slowly (low tps increment rate) it doesnt happen.

[LMS_689]

-I noticed you have the Anti-Lag function enabled in the Aux menu. Any chance that is coming on line causing the issue?
-I would turn one thing off at a time and see if any of them solves the issues.
-The only timing correction map you have enabled is the air temp map and it looks fine.

[jasaircraft]

Ok, hi guys, found a little time today (sunday) to log this issue again. I noticed something that improved from the last time I logged (I fiddled with fuel enrichment), and it is that it wont do the "pull/nopull" at 100% tps (except for the time in which I went 100%tps while the error was happening) it will error only at partial throttle, so something must have changed about tps rate of change or total tps position from the last map until this one. Ok so here are the pictures of today's first log (1 of 2logs). I can email the logs to anyone if they'd like to see the numbers. Help!
Also I know the 2nd image shows a flat lines bug but I dont think we can blame it since in the 2nd log theres no flat lines bug before the error.
LOG1: First image shows 100%tps with not the fastest of tps rate of change but quite fast with no error then just after that a partial throttle with slight "pull/nopull"error.


Now we can see the error





LOG2: Now these are of the 2nd log, notice the 100%tps in both logs wont do the "pull/nopull" error.

[LMS_689]

I'd guess you have a trigger issue. The trigger count at last home is all over the place and you can see a couple spots in the chart where the trigger count itself is jumping around. What is the actual trigger setup (number of teeth on the crank and cam, missing teeth, etc)?

[jasaircraft]

Hi, how can you tell the if its not right? should it be a flat line? the triggering setup is the subaru setup, with 0 value on both filtering and gain on both trigger and home.
both reluctors and on the rising edge.
Increasing gain specially made an ignition error with a distinctive "prrr" sound.
the subaru trigger is like this (the old one):
Trigger


Home

[LMS_689]

Maybe not. I didn't realize the cam sensor had multiple events. Not even sure what the trigger at last home should be. Usually, with a single 720* cam event the trigger at last home count will be a consistent number and a variance from that number shows a trigger issue. With your multiple cam events I wouldn't be sure how to interpret the log. I'd send the log to Haltech via email and see what they have to say.

[_aatsi_]

trigger count at last home must be steady number,cant ensure right count for that trigger now.....

also your filters on trigger and home should be trigger 1 or 2 and home 1

[jasaircraft]

do you mean it should be steady as for general trigger types or the subaru's trigger at last home count type? I'll try incresing filtering and see if it helps.
Keep all ideas flowing people cuz I havent got much anyways!

[master chief]

Hi.

We had some issues on a STI, having some "CUT OFFS" at high RPM, ended up being the trigger settings.
Needed some filtering, because of noise etc.

Meaby you have a similar issue.

If you like, you can send me your map as well, and i will look over it, comparing to ours.

dyp_one@yahoo.com

Good luck !

[jasaircraft]

Hi guys, thanks to all for the help and interest in this issue, I havent been able to test since I was a little busy with some other vehicles.
I think the key areas besides the filtering of the signals are the following, if someone could compare to theirs and post their setup it would be very helpfull, its the throttle pumps screen and the ignition map in the low rpm low load area basically.
thanks to all again,

cheers,
joe

[jasaircraft]

Hi
Well, did a lot of testing today and it doesnt seem to bo throttle pumps related.(even disabled throttle pumps and still there)
Fiddled with all stuff from the throttle pumps and nothing.
So the only thing I can think of is ignition related, somehow the ecu is advancing and retarding timing in an erratic manner, we can see that in the posted logs.
We can also see that injection duty cycle is erratic but AFR is not that erratic so we cant blame it on the fuel.
Its ignition, but why? why is it doing it...
I tried changing filtering values on both trigger and home, none of them solved it and even made it worse because sometimes the engine wouldnt start (with home filtering increase).
So all I can think of is maybe the ignition map or a correction table.
Now my correction tables are not many and are quite gradual to be causing this, so please help me think of the problem!

[jasaircraft]

now maybe its my ignition setup,
COP (direct fire)
trigger antle = 70º
Ignition spark edge = falling
Dwell mode = Constant charge
Constant charge time= 2.5ms
Spark break time = 600us

I'll try playing with the ignition map in the afternoon, but right now I feel kinda hopeless.