Direct fire on 6 cyl, what ignition coils?

pete_6
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Direct fire on 6 cyl, what ignition coils?

Postby pete_6 » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:32 pm

hi,

i'm wanting to run direct fire, probably coil on plug on my I6 4.0l. i have 2 3 channel haltech ignition modules, they will do direct fire won't they?

why is direct fire the best ignition delivery? what coils do ppl use?

thanks

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Jake261
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Re: Direct fire on 6 cyl, what ignition coils?

Postby Jake261 » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:42 pm

Sorry , i dont know about coils . But good things about direct fire is ignition leads which are not used anymore . It means less things to worry about and no ohms to restrict sparking energy .
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pete_6
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Re: Direct fire on 6 cyl, what ignition coils?

Postby pete_6 » Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:44 pm

Jake261 wrote:Sorry , i dont know about coils . But good things about direct fire is ignition leads which are not used anymore . It means less things to worry about and no ohms to restrict sparking energy .



thats only if you use plug on coil.......you can still use direct fire and have leads.

Mitsiman
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Re: Direct fire on 6 cyl, what ignition coils?

Postby Mitsiman » Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:36 am

Most of us use the Holden LS1 coils for direct fire which work a treat.
WA Haltech Dealer with Dynapack Hub Dyno in WA!!! VP Racing Fuels and Sucrogen E85 Agent for WA.

pete_6
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Re: Direct fire on 6 cyl, what ignition coils?

Postby pete_6 » Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:29 pm

Mitsiman wrote:Most of us use the Holden LS1 coils for direct fire which work a treat.


Just the factory LS1 coils?

I'm trying to find out if it's worth the extra $$$ and time going to direct fire as well as sequential injection. What are peoples thoughts on this as i'm a beginner and don't see a great advantage in it? By the way the motor is a ford straight 6 multipoint batch fire and distributer(TFI).

thanks

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Re: Direct fire on 6 cyl, what ignition coils?

Postby Mitsiman » Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:36 pm

To be honest unless you have a 1000hp beast or extreme boost levels, semi sequential versus full sequential is no real difference. I run semi sequential using haltech dumb coils on my V6 Magna running 17 psi boost / 600kw flywheel and have no issues at all with ignition spark. I think too much marketing is put into having extremely large spark voltage levels.

I am using LS1 coils on my 4cyl Galant drag car, in full sequential, but only because its a drag car and I want to scope each individual cylinder under power and be able to make minor individual cylinder adjustments on ignition timing so that they are all running identical, this way taking into account varying ignition lead lengths and resistance levels in the leads themselves which the E8/E11 software allows me to do as a ignition trim.

THe LS1 coils work fantastic, I have used them many times on boosted cars as a waste spark setup and can't fault them. They have internal ignitors so all you need to do is hook the haltech up directly to them no need for any ignitors.
WA Haltech Dealer with Dynapack Hub Dyno in WA!!! VP Racing Fuels and Sucrogen E85 Agent for WA.

EvilChief
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Re: Direct fire on 6 cyl, what ignition coils?

Postby EvilChief » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:00 pm

pete_6 wrote:hi,

i'm wanting to run direct fire, probably coil on plug on my I6 4.0l. i have 2 3 channel haltech ignition modules, they will do direct fire won't they?

why is direct fire the best ignition delivery? what coils do ppl use?

thanks



what ecu are you planning on running with this direct fire idea?


i am assuming you have a ford4l 6cyl?
id just use semi sequential injection and wastespark.

i am big fan of the LS1 coils, not only for this inbuild igniters, but also for their higher output spark.

pete_6
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Re: Direct fire on 6 cyl, what ignition coils?

Postby pete_6 » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:26 pm

I've decided to use an E11v2. i have an E6x here but i'm probably going to turbo it in the near future and the E11 will suit it better then the E6x. And yep it's an AUST Ford Falcon EBII manual 4.0l with a cam, raised comp, ect.

So what would you reccommend I do with the ignition and fuel? it's only going to get hopefully about 180rwkw, but i need all the little gains i can to reach that. and once I turbo it i would be wanting around 330rwkw+.

Originally i was going to stick with just the batch fire and distributer but use a crand CDI and LX92 coil. So from whats been said here that sounds like the best way to go seeing as my tuner won't be going through different cylinders to make them the same......

just to clarify, the LS1 coils you mentioned are off the VT to VZ holden 8s? and not the 'LS1' haltech coils?(the haltech LS1 coils are only single post and can't do wasted spark?)

Thanks so much

Mitsiman
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Re: Direct fire on 6 cyl, what ignition coils?

Postby Mitsiman » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:40 am

If your using the E11 then quite honestly, full sequential injection and waste spark ignition but use the six LS1 coils and wire them in pairs. That way you have the three extra ignition outputs to use for anything else you want.

Always go full sequential where possible as you can always do better tuning.
WA Haltech Dealer with Dynapack Hub Dyno in WA!!! VP Racing Fuels and Sucrogen E85 Agent for WA.

EvilChief
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Re: Direct fire on 6 cyl, what ignition coils?

Postby EvilChief » Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:05 pm

pete_6 wrote:I've decided to use an E11v2. i have an E6x here but i'm probably going to turbo it in the near future and the E11 will suit it better then the E6x. And yep it's an AUST Ford Falcon EBII manual 4.0l with a cam, raised comp, ect.

So what would you reccommend I do with the ignition and fuel? it's only going to get hopefully about 180rwkw, but i need all the little gains i can to reach that. and once I turbo it i would be wanting around 330rwkw+.

Originally i was going to stick with just the batch fire and distributer but use a crand CDI and LX92 coil. So from whats been said here that sounds like the best way to go seeing as my tuner won't be going through different cylinders to make them the same......

just to clarify, the LS1 coils you mentioned are off the VT to VZ holden 8s? and not the 'LS1' haltech coils?(the haltech LS1 coils are only single post and can't do wasted spark?)

Thanks so much


LS1 coils and Haltech LS1 coils are the same coil. To achieve waste spark you use on trigger wire for two coils at teh same time.

you group the coils together into pairs (1&6, 2&5, 3&4) and use one ignition output for both pairs.
Ign1 -> 1&6 pair
Ign2 -> 2&5 pair
Ign3 -> 3&4 pair

And you got waste spark ;)

stevieturbo
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Re: Direct fire on 6 cyl, what ignition coils?

Postby stevieturbo » Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:43 am

What sort of dwell time do you run the LS coils at ?
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pete_6
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Re: Direct fire on 6 cyl, what ignition coils?

Postby pete_6 » Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:00 am

stevieturbo wrote:What sort of dwell time do you run the LS coils at ?



Anyone know?

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Ignition
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Re: Direct fire on 6 cyl, what ignition coils?

Postby Ignition » Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:42 am

up 6ms is ok, any more and they start heating a lot, and are pretty much saturated at 6ms. You may be able to run less if you desire, around 3ms may still give sufficient spark. From what I have seen of someone testing them on a scope, though I forget the link sorry. Someone else may be able to offer 1st hand advice, but I will be using some soon anyway.

pete_6
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Re: Direct fire on 6 cyl, what ignition coils?

Postby pete_6 » Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:28 pm

Thanks for that info ignition.

What are peolpes thoughts on on the MSD LS1 coils? They have a multi spark setup and still keep the internal ignitor.

Also where can you get the termination to plug into it?


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