The idle speed is unstable.(E6X)

lgwgmail
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The idle speed is unstable.(E6X)

Postby lgwgmail » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:09 pm

Hello guys:

I have some idle problem at my 1.8L NA Engine with E6X.
The idle speed control use Haltech Idle Speed Motor and the target idle RPM is 1067RPM.
The Air/Fuel ratio is 12.5~14.7, and I set the ignition angle to 8~15BTDC between 500~1500RPM
The number of steps(idle speed motor) is set to 150.

Normally, the idle speed is fine running without A/C(air conditioner).
But when I turn on the A/C , the idle speed is unstable.I think it is due to the heavy load.

If the load is only Fan or A/C, the RPM will down to about 800 first, then the idle speed control will push the RPM back to 1067.
Sometimes it is unlucky, if Fan and A/C run together, the heavy load will pull the engine speed to 700(or lower), even the idle speed motor can push the RPM back to 1067, but the engine is strained.

When the RPM is low to 700, you can see the engine almost stalled. It’s very uncomfortable.

I had installed a signal delay timer to the A/C, the Fan and A/C doesn’t run at the same time.
The load is not heavy as before now, but I think the way is no good.

I’ve tried to modify the ignition angle and the number of step (idle speed motor), but non of them improved.

Please assist me to find some better solutions!

Best regards,
lgwg

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Ignition
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Re: The idle speed is unstable.(E6X)

Postby Ignition » Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:46 am

Unfortunately, you need to fit an E8 to get it to worki nicely. I have had the same issue and am now ordering an E8.

The E6X works brilliantly when on something like an engine conversion; but you get what you pay for and it will never function like and OEM system will in that regard. Apparently the A/C idle up control was never finished and working in the E6X, but it is still in the manual outlining how to set it up - which is a bit of an oversight I think...

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Re: The idle speed is unstable.(E6X)

Postby Mitsiman » Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:53 pm

Post up a copy of your idle speed control page off your computer thats running on the car. Woudl make it much easier as there is a definite knack to getting it to work right.

As a rule of thumb, I always start by getting the car to run hot, without needing any idle stepper motor values, with all of them set to zero. So startr with your air bypass screw 2 turns out, and get the car running at your base idle less say 50 rpm, by readjusting the butterfly on your throttle body first.

This way the stepper motor has to ony use small values, and is there for minor adjustments only, its not trying to make and hold large values. If you set it up properly, I have found, that for example, I only need to use say a min opening value of less than 5, and start opening value of around 10 - 15 and cold values less than 30.

Too many people try to make the stepper motor compensate for everything. By having the vehicle basically almost run on the butterfly/air bypass itself when the other items liek aircon and thermo fans kick in the stepper motor can respond faster because the car is able to take the load better without dropping the rpms too fast. The stepper motor is not playing catchup so much. I have found using this method, I can get an E6X to almost idle as good as an E8/E11. Its like anything, the more time you put into it the more you can get out of it. Theres no doubt the E8/E11 is better and has more fine tuning, but the E6X can still do everything you want, just not quite as nicely.
WA Haltech Dealer with Dynapack Hub Dyno in WA!!! VP Racing Fuels and Sucrogen E85 Agent for WA.

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Re: The idle speed is unstable.(E6X)

Postby Ignition » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:41 am

Ah, that makes more sense. The Audi I am doing has no air bypass, it is all stepper controlled, that would be why I am having a tougher time I expect.

lgwgmail
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Re: The idle speed is unstable.(E6X)

Postby lgwgmail » Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:26 pm

Hi~Mitsiman and Ignition

Thanks for your help!!

I will try to do it, and I have no confidence, because I had adjusted the air bypass screw almost to my target RPM.(1067)

My "min opening value" of idle stepper motor is only setting to 8.


But I will try to adjust the air bypass screw to make higher idle RPM, to let min opening value less to 5, and I hope I can get a stable idle speed.


Best regards,
lgwg

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Re: The idle speed is unstable.(E6X)

Postby Mitsiman » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:49 am

If you read what I stated, its not the air bypass that you need to adjust, its the main butterfly in the throttle body. Set your air bypass to 2 screws out, and then readjut your butterfly so that your car idles with the haltech stepper motor basically turned off, with a miniman value basically set to zero.

There is a delay in the vehicle sucking sufficient air through the air bypass valve due to its small size, which is why you want your car idling within 50 rpm of its hot base idle on the butterfly by itself, and then use the air bypass to get that extra 50 rpm.

Then you start setting up your idle speed control settings knowing you have a hot idle setup in place.

For the Audi, its not hard to setup a air speed bypass valve, just hunt some wreckers and get one from a toyota or a model car that runs an external valve setup.
WA Haltech Dealer with Dynapack Hub Dyno in WA!!! VP Racing Fuels and Sucrogen E85 Agent for WA.

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Re: The idle speed is unstable.(E6X)

Postby Ignition » Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:47 pm

Mitsiman wrote:For the Audi, its not hard to setup a air speed bypass valve, just hunt some wreckers and get one from a toyota or a model car that runs an external valve setup.

I did, I have a Bosch 2wire off a Volvo that happened to be at the wreckers, cost $35... new I was quoted $600! Have tried various ms time with quite different results too.

lgwgmail
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Re: The idle speed is unstable.(E6X)

Postby lgwgmail » Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:15 pm

Thanks for replay.

I had tried it .



Now I can run without Idle speed motor, and the RPM is stable.
(Engine can handle the RPM when A/C or FAN turn ON. The RPM drop to about 500, and go back to 1000.)



But I can't run with Idle speed motor, because the RPM will float between 900~1200, and never stable.

I have check the A/F=12.5~14.7, and try to modify the Ignition time form 5~20.

But non of them improved.


Please give me advice, thanks.


Best regards,
lgwg

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Re: The idle speed is unstable.(E6X)

Postby Mitsiman » Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:41 pm

If you are able to get a stable idle without the idle up setup, then you need to play with the settings on teh idle motor becuase ideally at idle without ladditional loads, the idle stepper motor shouldn't be doing anything at all.
WA Haltech Dealer with Dynapack Hub Dyno in WA!!! VP Racing Fuels and Sucrogen E85 Agent for WA.

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Re: The idle speed is unstable.(E6X)

Postby HaltechScott » Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:26 am

Please post up a screenshot of ALL your idle control settings. I am sure there will be some fieleds that will ba bale to improve.
Scott.
Kind Regards
Scott
scott@haltech.com - support@haltech.com
Ph: +612 9729 0999
Please e-mail support directly for earliest reply.

lgwgmail
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Re: The idle speed is unstable.(E6X)

Postby lgwgmail » Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:43 pm

This is my e6x program.
http://lgwghuang.googlepages.com/e6x.rar

Thanks for your help.

Best regards,
lgwg


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