Mazda FS Engine Help

[BRIAN MP5T]

(Edit: Apparently the E6 has a setting called "MAZDA A" which did everything for the FS engine automatically)




I am currently setting up a 1000 on a Mazda 2.0 L FS

I am running 4 Coils Direct and 4 injectors Sequential.

I have a 36 -1 Crank Position Sensor on a Magnetic
and a Magnetic Sensor on the Cam Gear that has three triggers. One by itself and two opposite and close to each other.

I understand that the setting I should use is likely 36 -1 + 1 Home but I do not understand how it will know how to trigger the injectors.

As I understand, it has to use both the fire the injectors and the coils because it's a 4 stroke. But where can I adjust for the angle of the Cam sensor, and how do I make it disregard the other magnets.

I have read and understand about the missing tooth on the crank, and understand the offset. It's brilliant. Can someone please shed some insight on how the second input is used.

Do I have to drill out the other magnets so there is only one that can be sensed by the haltech? If so is there an offset like the crank sensor from the event, or does it simply know that fuel happens 360 degrees from ignition.

I do not see a 36 -1 + 3 Home...

I am pretty technical, but I am in uncharted territory as being the only one to do this to a fully striped Protege engine..

Cam Position Magnets (3 Each)


Crank Position 36 -1

[BRIAN MP5T]

Bump For Help

[BRIAN MP5T]

Eric was very helpful...

Brian,

36-1 +3 unfortunately does not exist in the ECU Manager software. You'll have to remove all but one trigger even on the camshaft if you want to setup a full sequential ignition and fuel control system. You can determine which magnet or trigger nub to retain by putting the engine at 70* Before TDC Cyl #1 compression stroke. One of the magnets or trigger nubs on the cam sprocket should be near the pickup. Retain this one, delete the others. When you setup the trigger to 36-1 + 1 cam home, it will recognize the cam sensor (home) input as it sync reference, then you simply set yout tooth offset and trigger angle so that you're ignition is occuring at correctly per your timing light and timing marks. Good luck with the project, and if you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask.


Eric Gash
Haltech USA Office Manager

However,

If one of the magnets is not at the correct location, is there an Offset for just the Home?

PS.

The Home In on the Cam? and the trigger is on the Crank?
I want to get the correct words..

Can you also confirm for me that there was never a default trigger setting on the E6 called MazdaA.

My friend who is running sequential has it on that setting and has done nothing else to the car or Cam Gears.

If that is already in the Haltech Database, would it not be rather easy to reverse engineer the E6 Software and duplicate it in the new?

[BRIAN MP5T]

No Haltech Tech has any ideas?

[HaltechScott]

Hello Brian,

I have spoken to Claudio about your trigger issue. These was a setting called MazdaA in the E6X software, this was imported from a previous version of custom firmware and never doccumented. I realise this is not great, but as it hapepend 8 years ago there is not much I can do about it now.

Eric is also correct in stating that this trigger is not supported in the Platinum software.
You must modify the cam sensor if you want full sequential operation (as eric has stated by having only 1 tooth on the cam) or running half cycle operation using only the crank sensor.

the cam sensor, sync sensor, home sensor are the same thing
the trigger, ref, crank trigger are the same thing

[BRIAN MP5T]

EDIT: I referencing this PDF in the "I was reading" reference. http://www.haltech.com/downloads/access ... 0setup.pdf

I was reading that the Cam Position sensor on some older models did not have to actually be "exactly positioned" It has to occur before the Crank position sensor event so that the ECU can start the correct firing order, so it knows that Cylinder 1 is coming up.

Please consider this then...

I believe that the missing tooth on the crank 36 -1 is 67 Degrees from TDC Cyl 1.
Will the Cam Position event have to occur before that Crank Missing Tooth, or just some time before TDC Cyl 1 in order for the ECU to function.
If I can make them occur at exactly the same time, is this preferred, or is it better to have the Cam Event Occur just before/after the missing tooth Event on the Crank.

So basically what I am asking is when does the ECU have to receive the Cam Position for the 36 -1 +1Home in relationship to the Crank missing tooth.
(Before/Same/After) If I have to make a gear for this car with one magnet, might as well place it in the ideal place.


Thanks very much for your help so far, I started modding a Mazda to be the first to do stuff. I have never been disappointed and it has never been simple.

I would not have it any other way.

I will make this work with your input and then document the process to assist other Mazda Owners.

[HaltechScott]

You would want the Cam signal to occur around 5 or less teeth before the missing crank teeth. This way you will have a reasonable tooth offset and the engine will start a little faster.

I think its great what you are doing - Good luck with it.

[BRIAN MP5T]

Perfect, there's the answer.

The ECU Will not care if it is not at an exact angle, but should be 5 before the Crank event.

Thanks very much. I'll post final results and what the gear looks like when it's done..

Good thing I have 3 Engines to steal parts from.

Cheers

[BRIAN MP5T]

Alright Haltech Techs. I'm back..

I spent a bit of time rotating the motor and looking at when the triggers would happen..

In it's stock form without altering the gears, the nearest Cam Event (Magnet) was 18 Teeth before the missing tooth on the Crank. That is a lot more than 5 teeth as was recommended. So 180 Degrees before the Missing tooth.

The other option I looked at was taking the gear, and aligning it to the dowel pin on the cam as if it was an Intake Gear. This placed a magnet at best Two or One before the Missing tooth on the Crank. That's a lot less than 5, so 10 to 20 Degrees before the Missing tooth on the Crank. I am worried that this will work at low engine speeds, but as the crank moves faster, it might not be able to detect before the missing tooth. How confident are you Haltech Techs that the ECU is capable of running off only a 2 or 1 tooth offset. Will the ECU be able to react to that?.

Here is a picture of some extra gears that I have been using to work this out..

The first Picture is the Stock position of the gears at Top Dead Center. Notice the two marks meet closest to each other.
The Second is if I were to install the gear on the Exhaust side, but in the Intake Cam Holes.

I have marked where the magnets would be (Red Dots) in all possible locations based on the two ways the cam gear could be installed..





So in closing, I basically have a choice of
18 Teeth Before the Missing tooth (180 Degrees) or
2 or 1 Teeth Before the Missing tooth (20 or 10 Degrees)

Can you give me some insight.

Thanks

[BRIAN MP5T]

After some thought, I can take apart the adjustable gear. If I take the bolts out, I have one of five different locations that I can re attach it and then also move it out by 10 +- Degrees. As long as I remember how much I have moved the gear, and remark the timing marks in the new location I should be able to put the magnet anywhere I want and still have 100% stock cam location.

By taking it apart The magnet could be anywhere there is a dot. I just have to remove the other two to get a single pulse.

[stevieturbo]

If you want to position the cam trigger where you want it.....


Remove all factory teeth, and simply bolt a little M6 allen key or similar sized allen key bolt to your pulley as indicated by your red dots and use it as the trigger. Not a stainless allen key obviously



but dont forget...unless your setup is quite extreme, and using large injectors, you really dont need a cam trigger at all. Sequential injection is not essential by any means.

The engine will run perfectly well on a 36-1 trigger alone.

[BRIAN MP5T]

If you want to position the cam trigger where you want it.....

Remove all factory teeth, and simply bolt a little M6 allen key or similar sized allen key bolt to your pulley as indicated by your red dots and use it as the trigger. Not a stainless allen key obviously

but dont forget...unless your setup is quite extreme, and using large injectors, you really don't need a cam trigger at all. Sequential injection is not essential by any means.

The engine will run perfectly well on a 36-1 trigger alone.

Sequential is going to happen, I need this trigger because I also have 4 Coils..

So if I am going to the trouble of making a trigger and a home to fire the Coils, I am also going to fire the injectors independent.

I can't do that allen key thing, The triggers are Magnets.

[BRIAN MP5T]

Here is the solution.

The magnet hit 7 to 5 teeth before the Crank Missing tooth.

The new timing mark was added on the left..

I will still clean it up a bit..

[stevieturbo]

If you want to position the cam trigger where you want it.....

Remove all factory teeth, and simply bolt a little M6 allen key or similar sized allen key bolt to your pulley as indicated by your red dots and use it as the trigger. Not a stainless allen key obviously

but dont forget...unless your setup is quite extreme, and using large injectors, you really don't need a cam trigger at all. Sequential injection is not essential by any means.

The engine will run perfectly well on a 36-1 trigger alone.

Sequential is going to happen, I need this trigger because I also have 4 Coils..

So if I am going to the trouble of making a trigger and a home to fire the Coils, I am also going to fire the injectors independent.

I can't do that allen key thing, The triggers are Magnets.

You dont need to run sequential to run four coils.

I run my V8, non sequential, coil on plug, using only a crank trigger.

You just fire the coils in pairs, exactly the same as any wasted spark system.

[BRIAN MP5T]

You don't need to run sequential to run four coils.
I run my V8, non sequential, coil on plug, using only a crank trigger.
You just fire the coils in pairs, exactly the same as any wasted spark system.

Dude, UNDERSTAND THIS. I AM RUNNING SEQUENTIAL AND DIRECT FIRE. PERIOD!

What works Ok for you is not my solution, No Offense, it's not your car, please don't offer workarounds that require no effort. If I wanted to do what you suggest, I would have already.

Running a Sloppy Batch fire injector system and a low tech wasted spark system is not why I spent my money on the best and most capable engine management system on the planet.