E85 Flex Fuel tuning enquiry

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E85 Flex Fuel tuning enquiry

Postby 260RS_Go » Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:26 pm

Hi Guys,

I read this post linked below on the Haltech forums and I wanted to see if anything has changed with regards to tuning flex fuels for pulp 98-E85 with the Haltech Platinum pro.

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9315

My car is getting tuned in a week or so, I already have the I/O expansion module & the following Haltech sensors including 2 X EGT, Wideband, Fuel pressure & Ethanol content analyser. This is all going into a modified 260RS which is the wagon with the R33GTR running gear.

My tuner has spoken to Haltech and they're recommending the 1 map for E85 with similar corrections mentioned in the link above. What I've been told though is that with these corrections, the closer I get to pulp only the tuning for this fuel type wont be as optimal due to the tune being based on corrections from the E85 tune.

I was originally hoping it would be possible to have had a dual map setup for pulp 98 and e85 with corrections for both maps based on content amounts where the maps would change once they reached a certain threshold when one fuel reaches a greater than 50% it switches to that map and the corrections within. Is this even possible to do?

What I'm wanting to know is there anyway to tune the Platinum Pro for a best of both worlds approach so the car is able to reach its full potential with both fuel types?

The alternative is to only ever use pulp when I have to but that also means more jerries for E85 as I'd never want to be on pulp if the performance wasn't there.

Cheers,
Adam
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Re: E85 Flex Fuel tuning enquiry

Postby HaltechMatthew » Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:43 pm

I believe you may be confused as to how support for fuel composition works. The Pro range have had support for a while now, with the Sport range being added with the next released update.

With both the Pro and the upcoming Sport update to support flex fuel, there is a 3D correction table to cover adjustments to suit pure ethanol. There is a 2D table that is based on the amount of measured ethanol which then trims how much of the 3D trim table is applied. You do not need "Dual Mapping" to do this, you just need the correct fuel composition sensor and correct setting of the tables. Fuel, ignition, and boost can all be trimmed with changing ethanol content. Doing this mapping correctly the AFRs, boost, and the ignition timing will be exactly what you want for any amount of ethanol from 0% normal petrol through to 100% pure ethanol.

I have attached two screenshots of what the tables will typically look like.

flex1.jpg
The 3D table for maximum ethanol.



flex2.jpg
The 2D scalar table that controls how much of the 3D table is applied
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Re: E85 Flex Fuel tuning enquiry

Postby Claudio » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:27 pm

Hey Mathew, thanks for the info, when will this update be released? Is this a 1.12 release or higher along with new firmware for the current Sport hardware or will this mean new Sport hardware?

The other question i have is there is no need for any additional correction tables to be turned on in order to compensate for the ethanol content right? That single fuel composition table along with the Haltech Flex Fuel sensor will be enough correct?
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Re: E85 Flex Fuel tuning enquiry

Postby HaltechMatthew » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:45 pm

For the Sport range this will be just a normal firmware update when v1.12 is available, it does not require any hardware changes so any Sport or Pro is capable. Release dates are impossible to give and there is more being added to V1.12 than just flex fuel so unfortunately for now I dont have an answer. The Pro range already support it, so an update is not required to do flex fuel.

There are the two tables as shown. All that is needed is the sensor to be connected to a DPI, the relevant tables turned on in the Main Setup / Advanced section.

Just about all base maps for all ECU models are being updated for the next release, and the default values that come in the new base maps for flex fuel control will be very close to optimal for most vehicles. They will need minor tuning to suit but will work quite well by default.
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Re: E85 Flex Fuel tuning enquiry

Postby Claudio » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:46 pm

Awesome, thanks for the reply.
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Re: E85 Flex Fuel tuning enquiry

Postby Rmr298 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:20 am

Hi Matth, any updates? Is the Sport range ECU going to receive a ignition timing trim table base on wheel speed differential or acceleration?
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Re: E85 Flex Fuel tuning enquiry

Postby Claudio » Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:18 am

Rmr298 wrote:Hi Matth, any updates? Is the Sport range ECU going to receive a ignition timing trim table base on wheel speed differential or acceleration?

This question might be better asked on a thread of its own, but i think that might not be available for the current generation of hardware. Maybe the next generation of hardware might have a lot more goodies. :) :mrgreen:
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Re: E85 Flex Fuel tuning enquiry

Postby Rmr298 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:16 am

Claudio wrote:
Rmr298 wrote:Hi Matth, any updates? Is the Sport range ECU going to receive a ignition timing trim table base on wheel speed differential or acceleration?

This question might be better asked on a thread of its own, but i think that might not be available for the current generation of hardware. Maybe the next generation of hardware might have a lot more goodies. :) :mrgreen:

Ok but WHEN is it going to be available? a guesstimate would be nice.
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Re: E85 Flex Fuel tuning enquiry

Postby HaltechMatthew » Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:55 pm

Its already out, we are just hiding it from you! :wink:

But seriously, we do not have a fixed date. More than just flex fuel is being added and it all needs to work well together before we release it. I am sure you appreciate that we are as thorough as we can be so that you do not feel like a crash test dummy. We definitely prefer that it is right the first go. If we gave you the update now and you found a problem I could guarantee you would be upset and complaining more than simply being patient for a little while. It wont happen in the next couple of weeks, just keep checking the downloads section from time to time.
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Re: E85 Flex Fuel tuning enquiry

Postby Rmr298 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:57 pm

HaltechMatthew wrote:Its already out, we are just hiding it from you! :wink:

But seriously, we do not have a fixed date. More than just flex fuel is being added and it all needs to work well together before we release it. I am sure you appreciate that we are as thorough as we can be so that you do not feel like a crash test dummy. We definitely prefer that it is right the first go. If we gave you the update now and you found a problem I could guarantee you would be upset and complaining more than simply being patient for a little while. It wont happen in the next couple of weeks, just keep checking the downloads section from time to time.

Ok Thank you. I'll keep checking every day until we get it. By the way I wouldn't be mad though :D
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Re: E85 Flex Fuel tuning enquiry

Postby gts_215i » Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:03 am

Does the sensor provide both ethanol content and temperature ?
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Re: E85 Flex Fuel tuning enquiry

Postby HaltechMatthew » Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:49 am

Yes
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Re: E85 Flex Fuel tuning enquiry

Postby Claudio » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:22 am

Make sure you all stay tuned for SEMA, as all the goodies that are coming will be unveiled there and at PRI! :mrgreen:

I personally cant wait to see what's coming!
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Re: E85 Flex Fuel tuning enquiry

Postby Rmr298 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:34 am

Claudio wrote:Make sure you all stay tuned for SEMA, as all the goodies that are coming will be unveiled there and at PRI! :mrgreen:

I personally cant wait to see what's coming!

Its not fair :D that we have to wait for sema lol.
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Re: E85 Flex Fuel tuning enquiry

Postby GroupA » Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:20 pm

SEMA has come and gone.
Have been checking the download section and no update :(

Even an indication would be nice... will we see the update this year or will it be in 2013?
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