Ignition problems with RB32 and Elite 2500

Questions about the Elite Series ECU's? Ask here.
AndyStuttgart
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:04 am

Ignition problems with RB32 and Elite 2500

Postby AndyStuttgart » Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:18 am

Hello,

I just finished building my new RB32 engine (RB30 block, Nitto crank, 26 head) and now can´t get it to run.
I locked timing to 20 degree and used a timing light to adjust the ignition, but the engine would not start - just wet the spark plugs.

After playing around with different Settings etc., I now wont get a spark any more!
So if I for example use a second CAS to simulate cranking, the injectors are clicking but my spark plug (brank new, grounded to the engine head with IGN coil 1 or 2 removed) won´t do anything.
What´s really weird, if I change ignition settings in the Haltech ESP from falling to raising edge or from direct fire to anything else, my thermofan starts running as soon as I restart the ECU (so as soon as the setting is being used).
But the software shows that the thermofan is NOT active, and if I crosscheck the thermofan output by changing the temperature it works as expected.

How come changing a ignition trigger setting activates the thermofan?
Is this a firware issue?

I also had problems with ESP reporting that some random in/outputs were not configured, once it even reported I have no fuel pump relay so I must remove the corresponding wire! I could "fix" that by closing / starting the ESP software again.

This is really driving me nuts, I have a brand new ECU/sensor/engine etc setup worth 20k+ and it is not even starting...coming from an AEM Series1 which gave me 4WD / ATTESA trouble this is now even worse...

Attached you can find me current tune which I tried to start my engine with.

Andy
Attachments
Basemap_Elite2500_RB32_ID2000.zip
(40.99 KiB) Downloaded 72 times

richnic
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:21 pm

Re: Ignition problems with RB32 and Elite 2500

Postby richnic » Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:41 am

Under the trigger tab set the filter level to zero

AndyStuttgart
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:04 am

Re: Ignition problems with RB32 and Elite 2500

Postby AndyStuttgart » Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:17 pm

I will try that once I am with the car again.
From memory without filter level being set higher than zero it gave me an unreliable strobe of the timing light that's why I raised it.

Nevertheless, I hope the Haltech staff can shed some light on why I got those other strange issues...

User avatar
HaltechMatthew
Haltech Staff
Posts: 2452
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:45 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Ignition problems with RB32 and Elite 2500

Postby HaltechMatthew » Wed Aug 17, 2016 5:04 pm

The map attached is in Injection Time, with virtually no injection time that would run any engine I have seen. Why not stay in VE and simply tell it the injector size?

Watch the engine limiting method and function channels to see if the ECU is commanding the ignition to turn off. No power at pin A26 will also not give any ignition output.

AndyStuttgart
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:04 am

Re: Ignition problems with RB32 and Elite 2500

Postby AndyStuttgart » Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:18 pm

Hi Matthew,

I switched over to injection time to actually see the values instead of relying on the ECU to calculate.
Tried to raise injection to 1.5-2ms but then already had no spark any more so maybe then it would start.

Any idea why the ignition settings change is activating the thermofan?!

Thanks,
Andy

PS: Attached is a picture of what my setup looks like...
Attachments
IMAG1525-800x450.jpg

User avatar
HaltechMatthew
Haltech Staff
Posts: 2452
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:45 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Ignition problems with RB32 and Elite 2500

Postby HaltechMatthew » Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:33 am

No idea why it would activate fans. A/C On? You may need to log it so we can see what is happening. Be sure to also record Engine Limit Function and Method as channels to see if the ECU is turning off fuel or ignition for any reason.

If you have even experimented with Rising edge on the ignition outputs you could have already blown the coils. Almost all ignition systems except MSD style CDI units and some Honda Distributors are Falling. Getting it wrong usually results in letting smoke out.

These are one of the most common engines we deal with, so it should be a fairly straight forward thing to fire up if it is all configured and wired correctly.

AndyStuttgart
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:04 am

Re: Ignition problems with RB32 and Elite 2500

Postby AndyStuttgart » Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:54 pm

HaltechMatthew wrote:No idea why it would activate fans. A/C On?

If you have even experimented with Rising edge on the ignition outputs you could have already blown the coils. Almost all ignition systems except MSD style CDI units and some Honda Distributors are Falling. Getting it wrong usually results in letting smoke out.


No IC on etc, it really just changed by changing the ignition settings.
I really hope the coils are fine, as the Okada were everything but cheap...

User avatar
HaltechMatthew
Haltech Staff
Posts: 2452
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:45 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Ignition problems with RB32 and Elite 2500

Postby HaltechMatthew » Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:50 pm

Can you put it back to VE for the tuning method. There are some known bugs with Injection Time that are being fixed at the moment.

AndyStuttgart
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:04 am

Re: Ignition problems with RB32 and Elite 2500

Postby AndyStuttgart » Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:43 am

What values should I then enter for cranking table in VE?

BTW would this CAS work? As I tested around a little with the OEM CAS and it looks like it´s always throwing sync errors (tried to turn it by hand instead of really cranking).
CAS.jpg

User avatar
HaltechMatthew
Haltech Staff
Posts: 2452
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:45 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Ignition problems with RB32 and Elite 2500

Postby HaltechMatthew » Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:30 pm

The map you attached has the filtering on 2. It should never need filtering on this trigger, try setting it all to zero.

Yes that would work. Not much of an improvement though.

AndyStuttgart
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:04 am

Re: Ignition problems with RB32 and Elite 2500

Postby AndyStuttgart » Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:36 am

Ok, thanks for the hint with the filtering and engine limiting functions.

A not properly configured rolling anti lag caused a ignition cut.
So now I have spark and everything, and the tooth count errors etc are gone.
Rising trigger, falling home and no filters set.

But it still won't start.
Played around with timing and fuel until my starter smoked quite heavy...all I got was a "plopp" once while releasing the key.

I got about 5-10 degree ignition angle and 150-200% VE injection value at a temperature of 30℃.

Any ideas?

JimKden
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:28 am

Re: Ignition problems with RB32 and Elite 2500

Postby JimKden » Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:38 am

Have you disabled the injectors and set the timing sync to the ECU?

AndyStuttgart
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:04 am

Re: Ignition problems with RB32 and Elite 2500

Postby AndyStuttgart » Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:50 pm

Injectors enabled and CAS adjusted.
Even started to play with timing in 5 degree steps under trigger but no change.
Back then when I initially tested (with a VE of 50-100) at least I got a misfire against the starter or stuff...but now nothing.

AndyStuttgart
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:04 am

Re: Ignition problems with RB32 and Elite 2500

Postby AndyStuttgart » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:25 am

I just had another try, with a second car to stabilize voltage.
Since before even though I used a second battery voltage dropped to about 10.8v while cranking according to the ECU.

With the second car the cranking RPM climbed from 140-150rpm to 160-170rpm, and voltage was between 11.5 and 12v.

When opening the throttle bodies a bit I finally got some life signs! But it´s only instantly raising RPM to 500-700 and then dying off again.
I also had to adjust TDC offset angle to about 60 (while at 90 ignition seemed to be spot on before).
So there might be a problem with the injection angle I guess? Because just adjusting the ignition angle didn´t have the same effect than changing TDC offset...tried a cranking angle from 5-20 degree while also playing with TDC offset in the same range.
What´s strange, I was under the impression it took a bit longer until RPM dropped off if I raised fuel base arond 0 bar from 69 to 100% VE?!
Cranking table is at about 135% at the current air temperature I had during my tests.

Also obviously my idle control does not really do anything, that´s why I have to open the throttle bodies manually.

According to the workshop manual, IACV-AAC valve get 12V pwm. So I connected them to STEP 1 P 1 with a high side driver.

A RB26 elite base map a friend sent me - obviously from Haltech directly - uses DPO2 instead (which has a fixed 5V pullup).
And to make confusion perfect the STEP 1 P 1 I use for idle control (with a 12v pullup) is used there with a low side driver for TPSout?!
Which...from factory is a 0-5v signal?!

Can someone please shed some light if this "RB26 base map" is correct and if I should rewire IACV-AAC and TPSout and if my cranking and base injection maps are far off from what I should have?

frr2000
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:56 pm

Re: Ignition problems with RB32 and Elite 2500

Postby frr2000 » Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:40 am

Did you use the premium harness and directory wired the engine or are you using a patch harness?


Return to “Elite Series”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 6 guests