2500 elite into wrx hatch 2010

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jays22b
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Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:34 am

2500 elite into wrx hatch 2010

Postby jays22b » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:44 pm

Ok so the story starts now. I have a 2500 PnP and going to install in feb.
Motor is stock now but gets intercooler , down pipe , boost control and ecu at the same time. E85/pump/injectors/TVG delete, eql headers around june

My plan is to build a motor in a few years if it lasts but for now i was going to push the standard block as hard as can down the 1/4 mile. Gearbox already been upgraded with ppg gears and mods.

So Im keen on getting wideband behind the turbo to help closed loop tuning which sound easy, but what other sensors should i install now instead of waiting for later?

Oil/Fuel pressure ? what bar if so is needed and location of install.
Thermo coupler's sounds good but is it overkill? If not how many and were they should go?
2nd Knock sensor sounds like a smart move, but again maybe overkill?
Is there any other sensors or devices that can be looked at or it's all covered now?

Spadam9
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Re: 2500 elite into wrx hatch 2010

Postby Spadam9 » Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:26 am

Good on you on your Subie dreams I have a MY13 hatch and have been tinkering with a haltech E2500 for about 2 years now. I have found it to be a great ECU easy to learn to use and tune compared to flashing the stock ecu. Its better running a Haltech for its spirited driving feel and safety of your motor.

2nd knock sensor: I'd say dont bother it is difficult to find a spot for on the the stock engine to have a similar dB level. I have attempted putting it where AC used to be but due to its different location it needs a separate threshold table (and or frequency setting) than the stock one (this is not possible on current ECU firmware).

EGT sensors are overkill too but as I love overkill I have run one on each cyl on mine. Its good to know when you running hot / cold on a cyl and build in compensations/ warnings, it depends on how hard you want to push the worlds most fragile engine (EJ255). There is a "Max EGT" channel but for some reason it doesn't work, this channel would be good for compensations if you didn't want to use the individual cyl comp table (I'm using mine for LPW inj comps).

Fuel pressure and oil pressure worth it, the engine protection is good for these and worth having (better than stock ECU here). Run oil in the back of the block via a remote line, run fuel pressure off your FPR (get an aftermarket one if you are upping fuel pumps, u will over run the stock reg with E85 sized pumps eg walbro 460)

Wide band, yes run it in the dump (not directly behind the turbo but about 1m back and 0-15deg from vertical). The CAN one is the way to go if you want to run some closed loop fueling as if there is an issue the ECU doesn't just blindly follow an incorrect Voltage input.

Other sensors:

Id run a oil temp sensor, its worth it to limit throttle / boost etc when oil is still cold, you can also limit / warn if oil too hot.

The stock WRX map sensor is only 2.5BAR ish so you might want to upgrade if wanting to read higher than 23.5 PSI of boost, this is important even if you are targeting lower than 23 as you want to have timing maps / fueling / buts for above 23 encase of over boost ( You will get no where near here on the stock engine as its made of glass). I tried the Omni 4 bar map sensor but had it fail (they don't seem to like Subaru upper engine cleaner). Currently I'm using the Haltech motorsport 3 bar now sensor and its fantastic.

Drawbacks are:

Still no LPW inj comp as mentioned and despite promises years ago when they release the Elite Haltech still haven't added cruise control (I do miss it when driving long distance on the highway to Winton or some far away twisties, cars aren't just for WOT). The cam timing doesn't re calibrate each time the motor drops below 1000 rpm like the stock ecu does so when it warms up from a cold motor (cold oil even though coolant has reached the CAM control threshold temp) vs when it is started and thus calibrated fully up to oil/block temp the cam timing from one head to the other is different. I guess this is because the motor grows with heat quite a bit being a flat engine stretching the timing belt distance etc. Haltech told me to ignore this discrepancy, but it is up to 5 deg different in cam timing from on head to the other from these different conditions and I can see it in the 4 channel EGT output. For street use the Haltech doesn't have as good drive by wire feel compared to the stock WRX ECU which uses basically a 4d map set up vs haltech 2d graph.

Merry Christmas

Spadam

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HaltechMatthew
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Re: 2500 elite into wrx hatch 2010

Postby HaltechMatthew » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:24 am

Your LPW table and Cruise are all being worked on at the moment... and we should see the first one with the next full release.

jays22b
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Re: 2500 elite into wrx hatch 2010

Postby jays22b » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:56 am

New updates . Sounds like i waited the right amount of time. My misses all up for me playing around with the daily driver but getting pissed at the idea of no cruise lol. Matt u might save my marriage just yet!

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HaltechMatthew
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Re: 2500 elite into wrx hatch 2010

Postby HaltechMatthew » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:57 pm

I didnt say anything about the Cruise release date...

jays22b
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Re: 2500 elite into wrx hatch 2010

Postby jays22b » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:52 am

Ok before i start it next month , looking at the original MAF senor plug which i will remove and wire the IAT (AVI7) sensor to it, can i steal AVI10 old MAF for a oil pressure senor using the same signal ground as IAT sensor? Thats how its wired now anyway from factory into one plug. Just want to make sure its safe and try steal back an AVI as they go quick in this game.

The factory loom is perfect length for this job

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HaltechMatthew
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Re: 2500 elite into wrx hatch 2010

Postby HaltechMatthew » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:22 pm

I saw the LPW table in the list for v2.26. Maybe a few weeks away.

Note there will not be a 2.25, as this is already a release version for the Elite 950. It jumps to v2.26.

jays22b
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Re: 2500 elite into wrx hatch 2010

Postby jays22b » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:15 pm

Ok so day1.

Quick call to haltech for a couple of questions then i removed the OEM ECU.

Banged the 2500 in and laid harness as pictured. Easy and looks good and top plate fits nice.

Then a quick setup map for MAF tuning open boost . Sweet. So I turn the key to power ecu and the air pump is screaming at me. OK so i think yeah let's keep going and connect the laptop. (need to access ecu no matter what it's tried to do to car anyway). But after buying the world slowest laptop cause i never won one i figured the air pump must be Hot. And yeah it was so i unplugged the pump and good again but then the fuel pump was going flat out so same idea again, dont set fire to the car while these pumps are red hot and i disconnected it, Silence Ah.

In between that i did ring I think matt and he said just keep push the map on ecu then u be sweet anyway.

Ok so i had to upgrade the firmware and did that pretty easy and then loaded the map. Re plugged everything back in and the system was perfect. Dash cluster back online pumps quite. Check real time info and great. There was a fualt code thoe. DBW disabled hey.

Didnt care and turned the key and it started and held a lumpy cam idle that was so rich but it was running and laptop was working nicely. And yeah the throttle was offline. Anyway i figured since the ecu is working and car is kind of running i now go ahead and do the rest of the mods i got going.

Engine bay 1/4 torn down will get the rest tomorrow where the block is left and attack the TVG and EGR crap 1st seen there so hard then work back to injectors , pressures sensors , charge pipe , boost solenoid/4Bar MAP , e85 fuel line and flex, etc too much to list and i keep added more.

Anyway update in a few days or so when ECU is back online ...

jays22b
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Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:34 am

Re: 2500 elite into wrx hatch 2010

Postby jays22b » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:09 pm

Day 3.

Block fully exposed nothing on top.
done rocker cover 1st, one side. other good.
fuel reg located and half plumbed
flex fuel located and half plumbed
oil temp and pressure install on that famous galley plug at the back that no one gets too,( so easy when engine bay is stripped)

Turbo off to try get head egr port, failed so went just on top of block pipe and got it, other side easy as...

TVG out and in the BIN. LOL , went to mate who is a tool maker mate thats got everything and got MIG welded in alloy. Ported and polished last 3 hrs

Wire loom got split into 3. Fully braid looks OEM and pulled everything in engine bay apart from flex. lost it so waiting game ! 2 looms for I/O's and a power loom. Cans were placed into service manual spot in glove box and ecu is under its OEM pannel with hub leads all attached. Flex to wire in still.
Hit main ecu fire wall loom pass through as it was the easy option

3" Down pipe in and Wideband and narrow on same pipe which kicks back to 2.5" OEM

waiting for intake to be ready now now so i can work out the fuel system fully. Which should start to fall in place tomorrow.

Will try wire in the Power and I/O's connections tomorrow and maybe the A/F gauge.

So far i think im on track for mods but starting to get scared for 1st start in say 5 days, Maybe 4 ....

Back in a few day seen there's no input to answer or learn from!!!

jays22b
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Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:34 am

Re: 2500 elite into wrx hatch 2010

Postby jays22b » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:35 pm

Well 8 days of modding/install and deleting stuff and i got to turn the key. Ran but was 3000rpm and no control. So fault finding with Haltech support for a bit of setup advice and 1 live look at software and found out i had a mad vacuum leak. Plus a loose injector plug. Anyway found it and the car starts a little ruff but the base tune is great , Needs work of course but wideband is looking good and is close to 14.7:1 if not sitting on it. I now stumble at 3k were the oem tune would, funny that. Go for test drive tomorrow slowly and grab some data to study to find low torque knock and get a reference but I've read 11k is the number and haltech tune is 10.9khz so i image its pretty close for a standard engine. Having trouble still with the Fuel pressure regulator not wanting to set properly , maybe it's stuffed. only getting 25psi at max so sensor says. will check out tomorrow also.

jays22b
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Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:34 am

Re: 2500 elite into wrx hatch 2010

Postby jays22b » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:08 pm

fuel problem sorted out, And now on the road using closed looped doing some trim work. The map is great standard at 13psi but had to increase transient throttle and it's bang on. A/F ratio running great, the reaction time is so quick when u lean in to it. Cold starting is not very good but will work on that next . Over all very happy so far with the money it's cost me..

jays22b
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Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:34 am

Re: 2500 elite into wrx hatch 2010

Postby jays22b » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:41 pm

Bang and cop this! So far, i have done 400km of testing and not 1 fault. Then trigger signal start on the way to Heathcote to try and film Street outlaws Australia for YouTube and i got 35km the way out of Melbourne and fault codes start hitting me -
- 90% duty cycle on 1050cc ID injectors on 98 RON
- ABS Hill assist turning off and engine limiting

Engine limiting hitting me hard -1st guess is engine loom plug.

At the time of 1st wave of faults i just hit the fuel map with 1% increase across 20 cels at the same time!

If anyone know's melbourne the hills heading out going north are a great place to load engine. I barely made the 1st hill. Anyway that's where i got and i am so annoyed i didn't make Heathcote to film for everyone.

Meanwhile I have given up till Monday when support line is back and without no problem Richard or Scott will help out point me in the right direction.

Pulled a little data from ecu and there's some strange stuff on it.
Engine Limiting Function 0
Engine Limiting Method 0
Engine Limiting Active 1
There's also more data thats showing all 3 at the same time .
The Trigger system #2 #4 home tooth count all the way home after that. I pulled over and reset 3 time and was able to limp home. The car lost power a few time also , I did also try a map from 2 days ago that was fine on way back with no joy.

If anyone else has any suggestions of what I should try or an idea to chase over the weekend, then please post a comment!
Cheers guy's

jays22b
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:34 am

Re: 2500 elite into wrx hatch 2010

Postby jays22b » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:41 pm

An update for those who would like to know where my saga is at?

Spoke to Luke at Haltech today a few times and we chased a few different angles. I am the 1st official 2500 owner to have internal clock battery go flat but that's not the problem!

The ECU is seeing between 1-2.5 volts different from real battery terminal voltage. So this afternoon I have pulled, one by one every plug on engine bay to chase where the ground fault is. Luke and his mate on the desk today had me buzz out heaps of stuff and we concluded a ground fault so that is why i went chasing it.

I found 4 ohms on ground which would pull a 12 volts down to 9-10 easy at 5watts, so it's appears to be a nasty one. I have given up today with the car left in a state where every thing is unplugged and will have a chat tomorrow with the boys again but I am tempted just to bang down a true ground straight to ecu instead of letting it ground back through engine loom then off the block which goes to battery. That's how i buzzed out the earth. I disconnect the engine loom, i lose the ground signal at the ecu plug. So the ecu has always had it's earth from the block which sound sad in a way.

I used to be so scared of this engine bay but starting to feel like it's no different to my old Ford TE Cortina, when i was on my P's 22 yrs ago. It does help thou deleting most of the crap in the engine bay.

jays22b
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:34 am

Re: 2500 elite into wrx hatch 2010

Postby jays22b » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:30 pm

ok so the cars back going again. Got a new earth and 12volts is back at ecu . The 2 grounds effected various sensors and pulled many codes but all came back to the grounds . The worst one and the give away I suppose was injector duty cycle exceeded by 90%, so the ecu seen the low voltage and raised the dead time right up but been new to this i didnt pick it. Why would 1050cc injector max out so easy. And a new lesson learned too was use the ecu earth pin to check voltage and not go to the car body all the time.

jays22b
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:34 am

Re: 2500 elite into wrx hatch 2010

Postby jays22b » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:42 am

Just an update, The ecu and long term trims are working great. I pull a few data grabs at different engine loads an trick the fuel map up and let the long term finish it off. Havent been near a dyno yet but i have set soft cut limit at 6200rpm but car is doing everything right so far so im in not rush to hit dyno yet.

Full maxed out throttle close rate also and the lift setting and the gearbox really thanks me for that.

The closed loop boost has me at a loss , as setting it at 14psi i will only see 11 at the most. So i have played with open and seen 16.9psi and felt the power, plus watched the fuel tank drain lol. Open smashing closed so I need to learn all about the closed system next. Then I thinking time for dyno and dial it in when I got all the closed loop systems setup right.

I want to build a motor now but got no idea what HP range to build it for. A low 12 second car that could be turned up to a mid to low 11seconds every now and again plus drive to work 4 days a week would be nice.


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