Elite 2000 Trigger and Unstable timing issues RB26

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duz10s+gtr
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Elite 2000 Trigger and Unstable timing issues RB26

Postby duz10s+gtr » Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:43 pm

After some advice, Elite 2000, full house RD26/32, having big issues getting stable timing, car was running fine with old map and as per below trigger system.

Current setup runs crank and cam trigger, both reluctor sensors, just cant get them stable, we finally found that it was retarding around 4 - 6 degrees on its own, we could tune around it but don't want to be guessing on a big $$ car.

Changed crank sensor over to a GT101 hall effect, crank now very stable maybe only moving 1 degree at 9000rpm.

Problem is now we have serious cross over with home trigger, marked up balancer with 30 and 60 degree marks and cross over at high rpm with ecu locked at 30, it moved nearly 30 degree.

This was my biggest concern as I believe the Elite's are known for having trigger and unstable timing issues.

Any help would be appreciated, we are looking at changing the top sensor now to a hall effect with the platinum racing products cam sensor kit.

duz10s+gtr
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Re: Elite 2000 Trigger and Unstable timing issues RB26

Postby duz10s+gtr » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:05 pm

great help thanks all and Haltech :(

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HaltechMatthew
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Re: Elite 2000 Trigger and Unstable timing issues RB26

Postby HaltechMatthew » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:45 am

It is so good to see you are so happy that we did not answer a forum post on Boxing Day (a national public holiday) during our normal annual christmas holiday period, while we also moved buildings. A little patience at this time of year will go a long way, and most of the staff are also not back in the office until next week. The forum is also for users to talk to other users, and staff such as myself will try to jump in and answer when we can. You can also try calling, or emailing, or talk to your tuner, etc... if the issue is urgent.

Your question:

There are no issues with timing stability with the Elite. Give it a clean signal and it will output a clean signal, so if you are edge swapping with your cam sensor you need to move it no matter what ECU you are using.

If you are on v2.24 current release firmware you can view in the software where the cam signal occurs relative to the crank signal. It is called the Home Percentage Of Valid Travel channel. Ideally it should be close to 50% (halfway between crank trigger edges). Try moving the cam sensor to have it in this 50% range and your issues should go away if the sensors are working.

duz10s+gtr
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Re: Elite 2000 Trigger and Unstable timing issues RB26

Postby duz10s+gtr » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:29 am

Thanks Matt for the help happy new year

duz10s+gtr
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Re: Elite 2000 Trigger and Unstable timing issues RB26

Postby duz10s+gtr » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:50 am

HaltechMatthew wrote:It is so good to see you are so happy that we did not answer a forum post on Boxing Day (a national public holiday) during our normal annual christmas holiday period, while we also moved buildings. A little patience at this time of year will go a long way, and most of the staff are also not back in the office until next week. The forum is also for users to talk to other users, and staff such as myself will try to jump in and answer when we can. You can also try calling, or emailing, or talk to your tuner, etc... if the issue is urgent.

Your question:

There are no issues with timing stability with the Elite. Give it a clean signal and it will output a clean signal, so if you are edge swapping with your cam sensor you need to move it no matter what ECU you are using.

If you are on v2.24 current release firmware you can view in the software where the cam signal occurs relative to the crank signal. It is called the Home Percentage Of Valid Travel channel. Ideally it should be close to 50% (halfway between crank trigger edges). Try moving the cam sensor to have it in this 50% range and your issues should go away if the sensors are working.


Hi Matt,

We have done as you said in last paragraph and also updated to the latest software and found that 50% range, timing is as close to stable but getting miss count issues which is causing huge backfires and I mean violet ones, seems to be mainly high up in the rev range around 8000rpm plus, we scoped it as well and sensors are showing extremely clean, on free rev we get no miss counts but as soon as we load it up no good.

We have rewired both cam and crank sensors with 4 core shielded wiring and now completely at wits end to resolve this, I have 2 of Melbourne's best tuners at the same time looking at it and we just cant understand why, any help would be greatly appreciate because I scared this will cost me an engine if we keep going.

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HaltechMatthew
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Re: Elite 2000 Trigger and Unstable timing issues RB26

Postby HaltechMatthew » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:12 pm

Your only hope is to scope the signals at high RPM when the miss occurs. The ECU will handle very high frequency inputs, like 60 crank teeth at 20,000rpm so the pattern you have on the crank is not an issue, it is more if the signal is actually generated and makes it to the ECU. It could be anything that makes it not work. Tooth shape and size is one thing, as is the sensor response time, but this is more down to the sensor manufacturers specs that what we do with the signal when received.

duz10s+gtr
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Re: Elite 2000 Trigger and Unstable timing issues RB26

Postby duz10s+gtr » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:25 pm

HaltechMatthew wrote:Your only hope is to scope the signals at high RPM when the miss occurs. The ECU will handle very high frequency inputs, like 60 crank teeth at 20,000rpm so the pattern you have on the crank is not an issue, it is more if the signal is actually generated and makes it to the ECU. It could be anything that makes it not work. Tooth shape and size is one thing, as is the sensor response time, but this is more down to the sensor manufacturers specs that what we do with the signal when received.


Thanks Matt we have decided to run a full new wire in Haltech Elite 2500 harness and 2 x new Haltech supplied cherry sensors, that way there can be no excuses on the wiring and sensors used, see how we go early next week.

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HaltechMatthew
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Re: Elite 2000 Trigger and Unstable timing issues RB26

Postby HaltechMatthew » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:42 pm

Make sure the tooth shape matches the requirements of the sensor. Min 6mm width, gap, and tooth height. Needs more at very high RPMs.

minorv8
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Re: Elite 2000 Trigger and Unstable timing issues RB26

Postby minorv8 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:36 pm

Honeywell GT101 sensor requires a minimum of 10 mm tooth gap.

duz10s+gtr
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Re: Elite 2000 Trigger and Unstable timing issues RB26

Postby duz10s+gtr » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:36 pm

HaltechMatthew wrote:Make sure the tooth shape matches the requirements of the sensor. Min 6mm width, gap, and tooth height. Needs more at very high RPMs.


Thanks Matt I bought the cherry sensors from Haltech which Haltech recommended, I use the ross performance 12 tooth crank trigger wheel as per below link which has well and truly 6mm width and height.

https://rossperformanceparts.com/produc ... er-disc-2/

What air gaps do you recommend on the crank and cam cherry sensors?

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HaltechMatthew
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Re: Elite 2000 Trigger and Unstable timing issues RB26

Postby HaltechMatthew » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:34 pm

As close as you can without hitting.


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