Switching from direct fire to waste spart, ESP allows without wiring modification?

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SONofSUN
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Switching from direct fire to waste spart, ESP allows without wiring modification?

Postby SONofSUN » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:31 am

I have a Chevy V8 wired and was running sequential fueling and Direct Fire (8 Haltech smart coils). Due to suspected EPM cam trigger problems, I am changing to crank trigger 60-2.

It is now wired:
ign1- coil1
ign2 - coil2
ign3-coil3
ign4-coil4
ign5-coil5
ign6-coil6
ign7-coil7
ign8-coil8

Firing order is 18436572

with waste spark I want to fire ignition outputs in pairs:
ign 1 and ign 6
ign 8 and ign 5
ign 4 and ign 7
ign3 and ign 2

Is it possible n the software to command firing coils in pairs simultaneously for waste spark without changing my current direct fire coil wiring?

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HaltechMatthew
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Re: Switching from direct fire to waste spart, ESP allows without wiring modification?

Postby HaltechMatthew » Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:32 am

Set the Home Min RPM to something way above the RPM range of the engine and it will never look for a Home signal and will fire all 8 fuel and ignition outputs in semi sequential and waste spark, so long as you have the Quickstart function enabled.

the_bluester
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Re: Switching from direct fire to waste spart, ESP allows without wiring modification?

Postby the_bluester » Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:39 am

I had not even looked into this prior to now, I am in the process of deciding on a new ECU for my race car.

If quickstart is enabled I assume that the ECU (If there is a suitable trigger such as a 36-1 + cam home) will start the car immediately in batch fire and wasted spark when the missing teeth give it a synchronizing event, and then once the RPM setting is reached, move the sequential ignition and injection when a cam home event is received.

If the cam home fails, will the ECU go into a limp home mode and continue to run in wasted spark/batch fire?

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HaltechMatthew
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Re: Switching from direct fire to waste spart, ESP allows without wiring modification?

Postby HaltechMatthew » Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:34 am

It wont fall back at the moment. That is planned in future to allow redundancy.

The current coding was done to simplify the startup process, whereby you only need a clean crank signal and it will start in semi sequential and waste spark. Once the engine runs and hits the min RPM amount it will look for the home signal and switch over. We quickly discovered that CDI does not like waste spark, so a setting was added to disable this feature if required.

This feature actually gave many benefits. One is to set the value very high when diagnosing trigger problems. If the problem goes away you know it is Home Sensor related, if the problem is still there it is Trigger sensor related. Another is it also allows you to check if injector dead times are correct. If you switch back and forth between semi and full sequential there should be no real AFR changes. It will change ever so slightly with the less efficient fuel delivery of semi sequential, so in reality full sequential should show very slightly leaner AFRs. But for you, it means being able to wire for sequential and direct fire and have all outputs operating.

the_bluester
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Re: Switching from direct fire to waste spart, ESP allows without wiring modification?

Postby the_bluester » Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:44 am

A handy function to have and good to hear that a limp home/fallback is on the roadmap.

I had not looked into this feature at all but the first thing that occurred to me would be the ability to go back to semi sequential and wasted spark to finish a day of running should a cam sensor fail, without having to rewire ignition. A very useful function to have available when you might have hundreds of dollars for event entry otherwise lost.

SONofSUN
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Re: Switching from direct fire to waste spart, ESP allows without wiring modification?

Postby SONofSUN » Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:23 pm

HaltechMatthew wrote:Set the Home Min RPM to something way above the RPM range of the engine and it will never look for a Home signal and will fire all 8 fuel and ignition outputs in semi sequential and waste spark, so long as you have the Quickstart function enabled.

Thanks,

Will it fire coils in pairs (waste) using the given firing order?

Firing order is 18436572

ign 1 and ign 6
ign 8 and ign 5
ign 4 and ign 7
ign3 and ign 2

JimKden
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Re: Switching from direct fire to waste spart, ESP allows without wiring modification?

Postby JimKden » Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:31 am

I used the Quick Start to diagnose today why I have not been able to run in sequential ignition for the last 2 years since I replaced the PS1000 with the Elite 2500. It would run in sequential fuel but the ignition had to stay in waste spark. I bet I've checked the wiring 10 times and all was ok for sequential spark. I even made jumpers to quickly set from waste spark in the many attempts. The Sport worked fine in sequential spark. Timing checks with ignition locked was right on the mark.

When diagnosing today, I set Home Minimum at 2000rpm, all hell would happen with ignition at 2000rpm. I was using the same trigger angle as the angle of teeth degrees + offset that was used with the sport.
If quick start was turned off, there would be no spark on cranking.

It occurred in the middle of last night - with Quick Start ON it was cranking in waste spark mode and the trigger angle was half cycle incorrect. I was reading cyl 1 and 4 spark once per revolution even with ignition locked and cranking.

The solution was to add 360deg to the trigger angle,

So I would recommend that to avoid erroneous trigger angle setting to turn OFF Quick Start and set Home Signal Minimum rpm to 0 when setting up the ignition timing synchronization and reset to ON later with Home Signal Minimum to what you want.

The fuel was off 360deg, of course, but that shows it is hardly noticeable if not injected at the what is perceived as the most desirable time.

So all is well now with the spark.

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HaltechMatthew
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Re: Switching from direct fire to waste spart, ESP allows without wiring modification?

Postby HaltechMatthew » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:44 am

Quite the opposite. Leave it on and if the engine wont rev past the Home Min RPM you most likely have the TDC Offset wrong by 360.

Always wire output to cylinder number when you have direct fire or sequential injection.

JimKden
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Re: Switching from direct fire to waste spart, ESP allows without wiring modification?

Postby JimKden » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:35 am

I am convinced to leave it off until the correct trigger angle is found, then turn it on because if the angle is off by 360 degrees, you will wonder if you have any engine left when rpm hits the Home Minimum RPM. Been there.

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HaltechMatthew
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Re: Switching from direct fire to waste spart, ESP allows without wiring modification?

Postby HaltechMatthew » Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:45 am

You only need to test it at low rpm and load, and it simply does not sync and does not fire anything. Not random sparks.

SONofSUN
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Re: Switching from direct fire to waste spart, ESP allows without wiring modification?

Postby SONofSUN » Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:16 am

HaltechMatthew wrote:Set the Home Min RPM to something way above the RPM range of the engine and it will never look for a Home signal and will fire all 8 fuel and ignition outputs in semi sequential and waste spark, so long as you have the Quickstart function enabled.


Thanks,

But where can I find the Quickstart function? I can't find it in set up or anywhere else. I have version 18

JimKden
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Re: Switching from direct fire to waste spart, ESP allows without wiring modification?

Postby JimKden » Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:28 am

Quick Start is a drop down list selection in the Setup, Trigger tab, first block of settings. It's either Enable or Disable.

SONofSUN
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Re: Switching from direct fire to waste spart, ESP allows without wiring modification?

Postby SONofSUN » Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:10 am

JimKden wrote:Quick Start is a drop down list selection in the Setup, Trigger tab, first block of settings. It's either Enable or Disable.


thanks, but I can't find it in ESP version .18.

SONofSUN
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Re: Switching from direct fire to waste spart, ESP allows without wiring modification?

Postby SONofSUN » Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:52 am

Update:
Set:
Trigger 60-2
Sequential fuel and Direct fire
Min home RPM 9000
Sync the engine, triger angle 57 deg.
Quick Start, Enabled

Started the engine and fired timing was spot on. However, I got a small issue. In one attempt to start the engine, it would not start. Checked and get error P1302 (no home signal). Cleared the code and reset the ECU, the engine stated normal again. I am not sure if this will happen again.

SONofSUN
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:32 am

Re: Switching from direct fire to waste spart, ESP allows without wiring modification?

Postby SONofSUN » Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:25 pm

saefabri wrote:Update:
Set:
Trigger 60-2
Sequential fuel and Direct fire
Min home RPM 9000
Sync the engine, triger angle 57 deg.
Quick Start, Enabled

Started the engine and fired timing was spot on. However, I got a small issue. In one attempt to start the engine, it would not start. Checked and get error P1302 (no home signal). Cleared the code and reset the ECU, the engine stated normal again. I am not sure if this will happen again.


Update 2:
After discussion with Haltech,

Trigger: Missing tooth no home. Number of teeth 60, missing teeth 2.
Leave Fuel and ignition to Sequential and direct fire, respectively
Quick Start: Enabled

Engine is running and starts every time


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