S2000 tune getting progressively richer on track

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hoonyeah
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:54 am

S2000 tune getting progressively richer on track

Postby hoonyeah » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:41 am

Hi Team,

Tune question - Thanks for the extra set of eyes here.

Brief history - car was dyno tuned on ignite ethanol, now it's on pump e85, as a result, it's rich. That is not the root issue I'm trying to solve here, but instead we notice after a few laps on a circuit/road course, the WOT portion progressively gets richer lap after lap, to the point of the car breaking up.

I pulled fuel on the street - got him to 11.8 AFR @ WOT - can't reproduce the issue on the street. On the track the car obviously gets warmer. It's a v-mount supercharged setup with great flow to the radiator and insufficient flow to the intercooler. As such IATs are through the roof on track, so I cut IAT compensation down a bit. This did not fix the issue. First lap out, AFR's seem ok, every lap after it gets progressively richer!

Anybody mind taking a look at the tune and datalog?

Datalog notes: (2020-06-28 Gridlife Autobahn sunday session3 post transient enrichment fix)

    1:40 mark: warmup lap starts, notice AFR's ok-ish (yea still rich, but bearable), Short term trims aren't terrible!
    5:00 mark: AFR's getting progressively richer at WOT, Short term fuel trim cannot keep up!

Thanks in advance,

JR

Datalog:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ro0goc0hqmm990h/2020-06-28%20Gridlife%20Autobahn%20sunday%20session3%20post%20transient%20enrichment%20fix.csv?dl=0

Calibration:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8vieoopnzcd1rf8/2020-06-28%20Alex%20AP1%20supercharged%20black%20car%20v13%20reduced%20transient%20throttle%20enrich.hap1-113?dl=0

hoonyeah
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:54 am

Re: S2000 tune getting progressively richer on track

Postby hoonyeah » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:31 pm

Hi Guys,

After another track day of data and some basic analytics, I have more info: (issue still persists)


Summary of facts:
1.) On track, AFR's get richer and richer lap after lap to the point that the car breaks up (AFR target is 11.8, fuel is e85, currently e79-e80 per gauge).
2.) Perhaps unrelated issue, but still an issue: street driving, I noticed when the throttle is lifted (TPS 100 to 0, even cruising TPS 20 to 0) the AFR's go significantly rich on decel, I.E ~9.9-10.2 AFR momentarily [50-150ms], then level out to 13-15 within 500ms.
3.) IAT's are still very high, and AFR's are richer with higher IAT's even with IAT correction tables zero'd. Contemplating entering negative numbers to pull fuel @ high IAT based on #4 detailed data below. (high IAT = rich conditions).

Of the datalogs attached, I tried to be very consistent (same back straight at Mid Ohio) this is a 3rd, 4th, 5th gear datalogs:

----------------------------------------------------------
0.) Datalog file: 2020-07-31 Gridlife MidO v1 Friday 1043 session1.csv
1.) Time: Time 16:21 to 16:36
2a.) AFR average: 11.7 AFR (PERFECT)
2b.) AFR range: 8.8 to 12.0 AFR (8.8 afr was reached between 3/4 shift off throttle shift, everthing else was near perfect) see note #2 above "Summary of facts"
3.) IAT summary range: 127-145 (MUCH IMPROVED vs last track day anyway)
4.) IAT vs AFR near redline:
----------------------------------------------------------
Datalog file:
0.) Datalog file: 2020-07-31 Gridlife MidO v1 Friday 1654 session 3.csv
1.) Time: 16:06 to 16:24
2a.) AFR average: 9.9 (rich, very rich)
2b.) AFR range: 8.9 to 11.1 (consistenty rich)
3.) IAT summary range: 147-154 (MUCH hotter IATs)
4.) IAT vs AFR near redline (8600 redline):

Thanks again for any input.
[list=]Plan is to cut fuel a smidge for IAT's > 140 based on #4 comparison above. (and eventually add ducting, as IAT's rise by 19 degrees on that back straight regardless. (RED FLAG for IAT/Interooler/ducting needs perhaps, but you be the judge please).
We have 2 full days of time attack this weekend yet and I have yet to sleep, so I'll gladly report back to help others.[/list]

Thanks,

JR


Datalog files:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7rd79ctdi98ouvc/2020-07-31%20Gridlife%20MidO%20v1%20Friday%201043%20session1.csv?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/765seq26aqx1yi3/2020-07-31%20Gridlife%20MidO%20v1%20Friday%201654%20session%203.csv?dl=0

hoonyeah
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:54 am

Re: S2000 tune getting progressively richer on track

Postby hoonyeah » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:06 pm

Table adjustment in question is Air Temp Correction:
Axis 1: ATS (Air temp correction)
Axis 2: Load Fuel (?)

In session 1 datalog he runs perfect and axis 2 Load Fuel is showing boost throughout all 3 gears on the straight
In session 3 datalog he runs rich and axix 2 Load Fuel is showing vacuum, and what do you know... runs rich...

Sounds like it's narrowed down... still reading... so tired...


EDIT:

Above logging of "Load Fuel" differences between session 1 and 3 (while very different) seems unrelated... :!:

hoonyeah
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:54 am

Re: S2000 tune getting progressively richer on track

Postby hoonyeah » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:30 pm

Air Temp Correction Help file doesn't lie...
Attachments
Haltech help file Air Temp Correction Table.jpg

hoonyeah
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:54 am

Re: S2000 tune getting progressively richer on track

Postby hoonyeah » Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:49 pm

Hi Team,

Final update as car lost it's clutch so no more data...

Summary/conclusion:
    Looks like we nailed down the issue as best we could. We tuned out the high Intake Air Temp (IAT) + rich AFR condition by pulling fuel when IATs were 140+ via table FUEL: AIR TEMP COMP as we did at the last track event (ABCC), but more aggressively now (Mid-O).
    Post adjustments, our driver ran the fastest lap of the weekend and nailed a new personal best shortly before the clutch decided to check out early.

Lessons learned
    After acquiring this data between two track events at separate locations in high ambient heat (75-90F), we believe this is a small band-aid via tuning given this unique v-mount supercharger setup.
    Reducing IATs further via ducting will be our next step. We have 6 weeks until the next event at Road America. I'll gladly post back results to help others.


Data:

We have narrowed the scope of data collection here to show:
    1st lap out with ideal intake air temps; versus:
    3rd lap out with higher intake air temps

Needs further adjustments for sure, both in low load tune and IAT comps, but we're on the right track.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.) Time: 20:32 to 20:44 (first hot lap, car ran great, likely the new personal best lap, 129mph in straight at Mid-O)
2.) IAT vs AFR vs injector pulse width near redline (8600 redline):

[email protected] IAT: 128F
[email protected] AFR: 11.5 AFR
[email protected] Injector: 13.179ms
[email protected] IAT: 136F
[email protected] AFR: 11.6 AFR
[email protected] Injector: 13.153ms
[email protected] IAT: 143F
[email protected] AFR: 11.8 AFR
[email protected] Injector: 13.043ms
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.) Time: 23:50 to 24:04 (3rd hot lap, car ran good, but rich, 121mph in straight)
2.) IAT vs AFR vs injector pulse width near redline (8600 redline):

[email protected] IAT: 137F
[email protected] AFR: 10.2 AFR
[email protected] Injector: 12.361ms
[email protected] IAT: 144F
[email protected] AFR: 10.6 AFR
[email protected] Injector: 12.018ms
[email protected] IAT: 147F
[email protected] AFR: 10.8 AFR
[email protected] Injector: 11.912ms


Link:
Datalog file: 2020-08-01 Gridlife MidO v2 Saturday 1315 session2 post IAT adj + decel cut(v17).csv
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rifvullufskonlk/2020-08-01%20Gridlife%20MidO%20v2%20Saturday%201315%20session2%20post%20IAT%20adj%20%2B%20decel%20cut%28v17%29.csv?dl=0

User avatar
Tommy Shelby
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:07 pm
Location: Birmingham

Re: S2000 tune getting progressively richer on track

Postby Tommy Shelby » Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:01 pm

Nice troubleshooting. Hopefully you can sort out your ducting challenge in time for the next event.


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