Differences in DPO output circuits?

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Mattias
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Differences in DPO output circuits?

Postby Mattias » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:33 pm

Hi,

Are all DPO capable outputs (DPO, IGN, INJ, STEP+, STEP-) equally good at driving a high speed PWM solenoid valve?

Best regards,
Mattias

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HaltechMatthew
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Re: Differences in DPO output circuits?

Postby HaltechMatthew » Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:00 pm

What do you call high speed, and what is the thing you are trying to drive? Not all outputs are the same, but where they differ comes more with the unusual applications.

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Mattias
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Re: Differences in DPO output circuits?

Postby Mattias » Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:18 pm

HaltechMatthew wrote:What do you call high speed, and what is the thing you are trying to drive? Not all outputs are the same, but where they differ comes more with the unusual applications.


Hi,

I'm driving a WMI solenoid that is supposed to be able to handle 10-90% duty @ 30Hz but it only reaches 45%.
So what I'm specifically after is if there is a difference in the DPO:s ability to charge and drain the solenoid coil as fast as possible?

Also what is the back EMF clipping voltage on the DPOs?

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Mattias
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Re: Differences in DPO output circuits?

Postby Mattias » Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:58 pm

I would appreciate an answer on this topic, I did a test with the solenoid yesterday and there was a big difference:

Injection -PWM and solid + : Max 42% @ 30Hz
Stepper +PWM and Solid gnd from same injection output as above: Max 52% @ 30Hz

Best regards,
Mattias

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HaltechMatthew
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Re: Differences in DPO output circuits?

Postby HaltechMatthew » Tue May 02, 2017 2:21 pm

Last I hear you were having a chat with Luke in our tech department.

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Mattias
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Re: Differences in DPO output circuits?

Postby Mattias » Tue May 02, 2017 5:48 pm

HaltechMatthew wrote:Last I hear you were having a chat with Luke in our tech department.


Yes, but not about this topic. Thought this could be interesting for other users as well when choosing what outputs to use or if additional circuits could be used to boost the performance of solenoids. Probably very useful for 4-port boost control as well as WMI.

Best regards,
Mattias

Kyle489
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Re: Differences in DPO output circuits?

Postby Kyle489 » Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:24 pm

Mattias wrote:I would appreciate an answer on this topic, I did a test with the solenoid yesterday and there was a big difference:

Injection -PWM and solid + : Max 42% @ 30Hz
Stepper +PWM and Solid gnd from same injection output as above: Max 52% @ 30Hz

Best regards,
Mattias


I’d be very interested to know how you went as this is exactly what I was hoping to do for a direct port set up!

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Mattias
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Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Differences in DPO output circuits?

Postby Mattias » Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:05 pm

Kyle489 wrote:
Mattias wrote:I would appreciate an answer on this topic, I did a test with the solenoid yesterday and there was a big difference:

Injection -PWM and solid + : Max 42% @ 30Hz
Stepper +PWM and Solid gnd from same injection output as above: Max 52% @ 30Hz

Best regards,
Mattias


I’d be very interested to know how you went as this is exactly what I was hoping to do for a direct port set up!


Hi, I did a lot of tests and ended up making my own solenoid boost circuit, you can see the difference here on boost solenoids tested on Elite 2500. But in theory if you use one WMI solenoid for all cylinders it is to slow on high rpm and low duty so you could miss one cylinder witch is not what you want if you add ignition timing based on water. Probably better to run the WMI Pump with PWM. Also add a flow sensor and use that to toggle timing maps.

Bullet Valve BV314A-CC1-00-BCKA-CTA:
15hz: 11-87 %dc
20hz: 13-83 %dc
30hz: 20-71 %dc
50hz: 34-58 %dc

50 %dc: max 65hz

With my circuit:
30Hz 20-97%
50Hz: 29-95%

4-port MAC 46A-AA1-JDBA -1BA
15hz: 12-70 %dc
20hz: 16-62 %dc
30hz: 23-46 %dc

3-port MAC 35A-AAA-DDBA-1BA
15hz: 8-91 %dc
20hz: 10-87 %dc
30hz: 15-80 %dc

4-port MAC C7
15hz: 9-79 %dc
20hz: 12-72 %dc
25hz: 15-69 %dc
30hz: 18-65 %dc 15-66

With my circuit:
30hz: 90 %dc
60hz: 34-86 %dc

WMI valve with my circuit:
New FAV dry 9-88% @ 30Hz

Kyle489
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:06 pm

Re: Differences in DPO output circuits?

Postby Kyle489 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:50 am

Mattias wrote:Hi, I did a lot of tests and ended up making my own solenoid boost circuit, you can see the difference here on boost solenoids tested on Elite 2500. But in theory if you use one WMI solenoid for all cylinders it is to slow on high rpm and low duty so you could miss one cylinder witch is not what you want if you add ignition timing based on water. Probably better to run the WMI Pump with PWM. Also add a flow sensor and use that to toggle timing maps.

Bullet Valve BV314A-CC1-00-BCKA-CTA:
15hz: 11-87 %dc
20hz: 13-83 %dc
30hz: 20-71 %dc
50hz: 34-58 %dc

50 %dc: max 65hz

With my circuit:
30Hz 20-97%
50Hz: 29-95%

4-port MAC 46A-AA1-JDBA -1BA
15hz: 12-70 %dc
20hz: 16-62 %dc
30hz: 23-46 %dc

3-port MAC 35A-AAA-DDBA-1BA
15hz: 8-91 %dc
20hz: 10-87 %dc
30hz: 15-80 %dc

4-port MAC C7
15hz: 9-79 %dc
20hz: 12-72 %dc
25hz: 15-69 %dc
30hz: 18-65 %dc 15-66

With my circuit:
30hz: 90 %dc
60hz: 34-86 %dc

WMI valve with my circuit:
New FAV dry 9-88% @ 30Hz


Thanks for the quick reply and information that is awesome!

I was originally planning to use the Aquamist fast acting valve as I wasn’t sure if varying pump speed/pressure would have any drawbacks e.g. poor atomisation at low duty.

Looks like the ECU controlled solenoid route isn’t as simple as I’d hoped..


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